a while ago the user vinman started a forum thread called: "ray franz was an idiot".
the reaction to it was quite negative but i have to admit that the title of that thread was intriguing to me.
by nature i am an iconoclast.
Saintbertholdt
I'm going to be blunt here: I think Franz was making a power play for chief theologian in the late 70's after the 75 failure.
I had to step out for a while but I did catch this post. What do you mean by Franz making a power play? What's higher than a GB member? Elaborate please.
a while ago the user vinman started a forum thread called: "ray franz was an idiot".
the reaction to it was quite negative but i have to admit that the title of that thread was intriguing to me.
by nature i am an iconoclast.
What do you think about Franz being oblivious as to what was going to happen to him? He was way too intelligent not to pick up on what was going down.
I don’t think Franz was oblivious. I’m sure Ray recognized the repercussions that were going to befall him for every word and thought he printed in his book. But I’m sure he used filters to lessen the consequences that he felt might result because of the expose.
In other words, he threw out the dirty laundry, but not necessarily “ALL” the dirty soiled laundry. Human nature makes us risk averse, and I believe Ray was trying to exit peacefully.
Once he was disfellowshipped he went for it, that is, he decided to use the material he kept to indict them but since it was his first experience in doing this, I’m sure he tempered it a little. He still had a conscience that guided him and he didn’t allow anger and hatred to control his writings.
I always felt that Ray knew a lot more than he wrote, but he had to balance the way he wrote so that it would not come off as hateful rhetoric against a group of people that kicked him out.
I think he thoughtfully considered carefully what subjects to cover and how much of those subjects he would discuss. Ray probably gave much thought as to how the subjects in the book would affect the over-all tone or attitude of his book.
wt study edition jan. 2015.
here is the bait:.
as the number of kingdom proclaimers increases and as we near the end of this system of things, there is an urgent need for more facilities.
re: the Walkill folks I think what I mean is that belief may not even be an issue anymore. As is often pointed out its the social thing that attracts them.
Yes, it is tough when you get old and you lose all your family and friends. And at that point, what’s the use if you can’t share your thoughts and feelings with someone? That’s when life starts to become meaningless and any social thing will do to get your through the day. I don't look forward to that day.
a while ago the user vinman started a forum thread called: "ray franz was an idiot".
the reaction to it was quite negative but i have to admit that the title of that thread was intriguing to me.
by nature i am an iconoclast.
You know, it’s kind of hard to see what was going through Ray’s mind as he exposed the Watchtower Organization for what it really was. Did he feel that focusing on Greenlees would detract from the overall message of what he was trying to accomplish? I’m not sure.
Now I can see the relevance of continuing on the subject in the book if the GB allowed Greenlees to continue serving as a GB, but since they dismissed him, it kind of ended the matter. They could not be accused of allowing him to serve after the fact of the matter when the majority became aware. They did do a good job of squelching the incident, but I doubt it if they could do it again. Too many camera phones all over the place.
a while ago the user vinman started a forum thread called: "ray franz was an idiot".
the reaction to it was quite negative but i have to admit that the title of that thread was intriguing to me.
by nature i am an iconoclast.
Wasn't his silence complacency? Franz wrote about everything else, why not this particular subject? The Watchtower pedorist scandal already broke three years before the last revision of his first book (2001 and 2004 respectively), yet he still kept silent. Was it too uncomfortable for him or was he just protecting Greenlees and his own reputation?
Maybe Franz only had second hand knowledge and wasn't totally sure if the accusations were true. It was a witch-hunt environment during that time and accusations were flying left and right. Wasn't Franz disfellowshipped for just having lunch with a disfellowshipped person? It was a crazy time to be a Jw and be in Bethel.
one of the things that gave me confidence in life was that i believed i had the almighty creator/god watching over me, directing me, guiding my every step, protecting me from harm, and answering my prayers.
i now know that is not the case anymore.
i finally stopped praying.
It's crazy isn't it. I sometimes wonder if someone is just experimenting with us like a bad kid tortures ants.WHATSGOINGON 11 minutes ago
I look at creation and it is so complex, our feelings and emotions are something that could not have evolved (in my opinion) and the earth is so beautiful it seems crazy to think it all just happened.
one of the things that gave me confidence in life was that i believed i had the almighty creator/god watching over me, directing me, guiding my every step, protecting me from harm, and answering my prayers.
i now know that is not the case anymore.
i finally stopped praying.
One of the things that gave me confidence in life was that I believed I had the Almighty Creator/God watching over me, directing me, guiding my every step, protecting me from harm, and answering my prayers.
I now know that is not the case anymore. I finally stopped praying.
How could I pray for my daily bread when I see thousands of children starving every day? Why would I be more important than them?
How can I pray to God to deliver me from the “Evil One” when I turn the television and I see children floating on the ocean, drowned because they were fleeing their country that was engaged in war by a bunch of evil men?
How can I pray to God when I see a man crying relentlessly because he was not able to save his wife and children from dying in the ocean?
Why would I be better than him?
Why would God answer my prayers instead of answering the prayers of these children and parents when they were gasping for their last breath and their eyes were seeing their last glimpse of sunlight and the beautiful blue sky?
I remember being at the hospital with a large group of witnesses, supporting this brother whose wife was giving birth and had run into complications. It was a young couple and it was their first child. She started hemorrhaging internally. I remember the doctor come to the waiting room and tell the husband what was happening. I remember the doctor’s words; “We can SAVE Her”
But
the husband said; “NO BLOOD” All of us, about fifty brothers and sisters
started praying to God. We would not stop. About an hour later the doctor
walked in and tells the Husband; “I’m Sorry, your wife died”
No one questioned it except me. I remember asking one of the elders; “Why didn’t Jehovah answer our prayers”
His reply;
“Sometimes “We” pray for the wrong thing”
WTF, how can praying for someone’s life be praying for the wrong thing?
Now I finally know the truth, and I don’t like it.
I’m on my own.
what do you really believe the percentage is for jw who are truly ignorant of what is going on behind closed doors of the w.t.
as opposed to those who actually know something is wrong & yet go along with it for whatever reason?
i have been asked for coffee by what i can only describe as one of the sweetest persons i have ever known & i cant even begin to conceive that she knows what is happening with the child abuse cases but then how do i know?
I've thought about that quite often Sabin. It's hard to say, but once a person starts learning the nasty secrets of the WT, it doesn't take long to either stop completely or do very little. If a person is still attending all meetings and still active in field service, then they are still ignorant, which I believe is the higher percentage, Perhaps 90 percent ignorant and 10 percent on the verge of waking up. 10% doesn't sound like a lot but that is about 800,000 worldwide that "might" be on the verge of waking up. And it's gonna get better as time goes on and more exposure works its way into the organization
wt study edition jan. 2015.
here is the bait:.
as the number of kingdom proclaimers increases and as we near the end of this system of things, there is an urgent need for more facilities.
Diogenesister
These older people, some without kids, are just feeling empty. Going door to door, with little or no response. They want to feel 'part' of somethi!g again.
Diogenesister, that is very interesting to me, so this lady you mentioned has traveled all over the world and probably done a lot and is now unhappy and lonely. I've met people who have not traveled at all, have not done much in their life and have lived in the same place all their life with the same person and yet are extremely happy in their 80s -90s
Fascinating!
wt study edition jan. 2015.
here is the bait:.
as the number of kingdom proclaimers increases and as we near the end of this system of things, there is an urgent need for more facilities.
WT Study Edition Jan. 2015
Here is the bait:
As the number of Kingdom proclaimers increases and as we near the end of this system of things, there is an urgent need for more facilities. (Isa. 60:22; Hab. 2:3)
For King David, his “heart’s desire” was to build a house for Jehovah’s name. (1 Chron. 22:7) David wanted nothing more than to have a share in constructing a temple that would bring praise and glory to God. If David were alive today, how would he feel about the great building work that is taking place in our time?
Here is the catch.
A FEW years ago, Cesar and his wife, Rocio, were living a comfortable life in California, where Cesar was working full-time in the field of heating, ventilation, and air-conditioning and Rocio worked part-time at a doctor’s office. They owned their home, and they had no children. Then we moved out of our 2,200-square-foot (200 sq m) dream home that we had built just a couple of years earlier and moved into our 270-square-foot (25 sq m) apartment. Making these changes,” says Cesar, “put us in a better position to accept an invitation to Bethel,
Way, an electrician, and Debra, both in their late 50’s, sold their home and most of their belongings in Kansas and moved to Wallkill to serve as commuter Bethelites.
Melvin and Sharon sold their home and belongings in South Carolina so that they could assist at Warwick.William and Sandra, who are in their early 60’s, were settled, enjoying their life in Pennsylvania. They had a successful precision machining company that employed 17 people. So when the opportunity arose to serve as commuters at Wallkill, they knew that it would mean saying good-bye
Dale, a civil engineer, and Cathy, from Alabama, highly recommend this type of service. Volunteering at Wallkill, they say: “If you have the courage to step out of your comfort zone, you will have an opportunity to see Jehovah’s spirit at work.”
Sell your house and go volunteer at Wall--KILL The End is coming!!!!!
